In my opinion, AI just feels like the logical next step for capitalist exploitation and destruction of culture. Generative AI is (in most cases) just a fancy way for cooperations to steal art on a scale, that hasn’t been possible before. And then they use AI to fill the internet with slop and misinformation and actual artists are getting fired from their jobs, because the company replaces them with an AI, that was trained on their original art. Because of these reasons and some others, it just feels wrong to me, to be using AI in such a manner, when this community should be about inclusion and kindness. Wouldn’t it be much cooler, if we commissioned an actual artist for the banner or find a nice existing artwork (where the licence fits, of course)? I would love to hear your thoughts!
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- 1 year
For good fucking reason. AI wastes fresh water and ruins our climate while being terrible at what it does
1 yearIs it AI? It’s been the banner since at least the Reddit API thing and I don’t see common AI artifacts. All the eyes and whiskers look fairly consistent for example, so do the paws. Especially with the relatively primitive AI models back then it would actually be impressive if they generated this image. I think it’s just a generic looking CGI image with the same off shelf 3D model posed in different ways.
“This community should be about inclusion and kindness” - as you tell us our banner sucks and whoever made it. You can spot a .world user a mile away. -edit: and you joined two hours ago?
- 1 year
Well, you didn’t even make it or anyone, an AI made it. Kindness towards artists and not kindness towards people using their art without consent.
If you want to get philosophical, all art is plagiarism, derived from the inspiration of others.
- 1 year
“whoever made it” oh nooooo, I’m sure the AI is super offended.
Right now, anti-AI rhetoric is taking the same unprincipled rhetoric that the Luddites pushed forward in attacking machinery. They identified a technology linked to their proletarianization and thus a huge source of their new misery, but the technology was not at fault. Capitalism was.
What generative AI is doing is making art less artisinal. The independent artists are under attack, and are being proletarianized. However, that does not mean AI itself is bad. Copyright, for example, is bad as well, but artists depend on it. The same reaction against AI was had against the camera for making things like portraits and still-lifes more accessible, but nowadays we would not think photography to be anything more than another tool.
The real problems with AI are its massive energy consumption, its over-application in areas where it actively harms production and usefulness, and its application under capitalism where artists are being punished while corporations are flourishing.
In this case, there’s no profit to be had. People do not need to hire artists to make a banner for a niche online community. Hell, this could have been made using green energy. These are not the same instances that make AI harmful in capitalist society.
Correct analysis of how technologies are used, how they can be used in our interests vs the interests of capital, and correct identification of legitimate vs illegitimate use-cases are where we can succeed and learn from the mistakes our predecessors made. Correct identification of something linked to deteriorating conditions combined with misanalyzing the nature of how they are related means we come to incorrect conclusions, like when the Luddites initially started attacking machinery, rather than organizing against the capitalists.
Hand-created art as a medium of human expression will not go away. AI can’t replace that. What it can do is make it easier to create images that don’t necessarily need to have that purpose, as an expression of the human experience, like niche online forum banners or conveying a concept visually. Not all images need to be created in artisinal fashion, just like we don’t need to hand-draw images of real life when a photo would do. Neither photos nor AI can replace art. Not to mention, but there is an art to photography as well, each human use of any given medium to express the human experience can be artisinal.
- 1 year
The Luddites weren’t simply “attacking machinery” though, they were attacking the specific machinery owned by specific people exploiting them and changing those production relations.
And due to the scale of these projects and the amount of existing work they require in their construction, there are no non-exploitative GenAI systems
Yes, I’m aware that the Luddites weren’t stupid and purely anti-tech. However, labor movements became far more successful when they didn’t attack machinery, but directly organized against capital.
GenAI exists. We can download models and run them locally, and use green energy. We can either let capitalists have full control, or we can try to see if we can use these tools to our advantage too. We don’t have the luxury of just letting the ruling class have all of the tools.
- 1 year
These systems are premised on the idea that human thought and creativity are matters of calculation. This is a deeply anti-human notion.
https://aeon.co/essays/can-computers-think-no-they-cant-actually-do-anything
Human thought is what allows us to change our environment. Just as our environment shapes us, and creates our thoughts, so too do we then reshape our environment, which then reshapes us. This endless spiral is the human experience. Art plays a beautiful part in that expression.
I’m a Marxist-Leninist. That means I am a materialist, not an idealist. Ideas are not beamed into people’s heads, they aren’t the primary mover. Matter is. I’m a dialectical materialist, a framework and worldview first really brought about by Karl Marx. Communism is a deeply human ideology. As Marx loved to quote, “nothing human is alien to me.”
I don’t appreciate your evaluation of me, or my viewpoint. Fundamentally, it is capitalism that is the issue at hand, not whatever technology is caught up in it. Opposing the technology whole-cloth, rather than the system that uses it in the most nefarious ways, is an error in strategy. We must use the tools we can, in the ways we need to. AI has use cases, it also is certainly overused and overapplied. Rejecting it entirely and totally on a matter of idealist principles alone is wrong, and cedes the tools purely to the ruling class to use in its own favor, as it sees fit.
- 1 year
Matter being the primary mover does not mean that ideas and ideals don’t have consequences. What is the reason we want the redistribution of material wealth? To simply make evenly sized piles of things? No, it’s because we understand something about the human experience and human dignity. Why would Marx write down his thoughts, if not to try to change the world?
I never for one second suggested that thoughts had no purpose or utility, or that we shouldn’t want to change the world. This is, again, another time you’ve misinterpreted me.
- 1 year
All I am saying is that, baked into the design and function of these material GenAI systems, is a model of human thought and creativity that justifies subjugation and exploitation.
Ali Alkhatib wrote a really nice (short) essay that, while it’s not saying exactly what I’m saying, outlines ways to approach a definition of AI that allows the kind of critique that I think both of us can appreciate: https://ali-alkhatib.com/blog/defining-ai
That’s your opinion. I disagree with it. Keep the banner as it is. Someone surely took the time to make that image. As it’s pretty good even more for the time it was created. You are just dishing that person’s work. I respect that person work, so the banner should stay.
It would be fine if it was possible to ask the person who made the banner how did they made it and how long it took.
Your complain seems to be mostly based on AI being able to do things faster. At that point why stop there… don’t hire digital artist. They took jobs away from traditional artists. Pretty sure the only good thing we could do I commission the banner to a full crew of sculptors to do the 3d mesh on granite and then a full tome oil painter for a year to capture the image into canvas. That would make sure that not technological advances would steal anyone’s job.
Edit: It’s fucking ironic that anti-AI people use downvote/ upvote bots. But I catched it. Fucking ironic.
- 1 year
A less than 24 hour old account, who’s entire comment history is this post which is pushing rehashed anti-AI nonsense in the guise of a concerned community member.
Ladies and gentleman, this is an excellent example of a concern troll:
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll
A concern troll is someone who disingenuously visits sites of an opposing ideology to disrupt conversation by offering unwanted advice on how to solve problems which do not really exist.
Topics of “concern” usually involve tactical use of rhetoric, site rules, or with more philosophical consistency. The concern troll’s posts are almost exclusively intended to derail the normal functions of their targeted website.
With a little prep time and some VPNs the OP could have enough alts available to ensure that anyone arguing against them receives enough down votes to make the OP’s position seem reasonable.
If you examined the population of people who contributed down votes, you’d likely find a bunch of new or low comment history accounts who seem to exclusively vote in anti-AI threads.
