• abbadon420@sh.itjust.works
    20 days

    Lots of things taste like vanilla, but that generic vanilla taste is as authentic as the generic banana taste. Real vanilla tastes very different from the chemical imitation that you find in every cheap dairy product. The “plain” in this story is refering to that fake vanilla. Real vanilla is still very much rare, expensive and exceptional.

    Edit: fun fact, the fake banana taste is actually based off of the “gris michel” banana. This specific banana cultivar was THE generic banana you could buy in every grocery store. Until the 1950’s when almost the whole species went extinct due to a decease. The “panama disease”. Heavy monoculture farming made the banana industry extremely suseptible. Within a few years, all major farms were destroyed. Now we have a different banana cultuvar, the “Cavendish”. This banana is not susceptible to the panama disease,but variations of the panama disease are allready showing up around the world.

    • Chrobin@discuss.tchncs.de
      20 days

      Actually, the “fake” vanilla aroma is chemically identical to the main aroma of real vanilla. So you really can’t say that it’s as authentic as banana aroma, as that is only similar to real banana. Now real vanilla does taste different, because it has a lot of other components creating a much more complex taste profile.

      • Airfried@piefed.socialEnglish
        20 days

        Yeah, I was about to ask who hasn’t had both? Like, I’ve eaten, cooked and baked with real and fake vanilla and they’re almost identical. I prefer vanilla extract over other options and I don’t really care how much real vanilla is in it.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zipEnglish
          20 days

          If you’re cooking it, I agree, it’s practically identical. When just mixed or raw, they’re fairly different. Obviously the primary smell/taste is still vanillin, but there’s a lot more to it that is mostly lost when cooking.

      • scutiger@lemmy.world
        19 days

        Vanillin is the same chemical in both artificial vanilla flavorings and actual vanilla, so that definitely tastes the same.

        Most people don’t have the palate trained to really distinguish the subtle differences brought on by those other components and will probably appreciate both equally. I’m sure I couldn’t tell both apart unless I was comparing them 1-to-1.

      • RaphaelSchmitz@feddit.org
        19 days

        The banana flavours are also both real banana flavours.

        That comparison just has so many health issues it should be taken to the back and put down

    • starchylemming@lemmy.world
      20 days

      since all the plantations are clones of the same banana its just a matter of time until we lose the banan

      • Remember_the_tooth@lemmy.world
        20 days

        For what it’s worth, it probably won’t go extinct. Even if there wasn’t a more resistant cultivar, they’d probably just get really expensive. It’s still possible to get gros michael and others, just not as easily or for less than $1 USD unless the buyer lives near a plantation.

        • mobyduck648@lemmy.world
          20 days

          So this sent me down a rabbit hole and it turns out they’re basically not available in the UK full stop as a fresh fruit, even via the European importer I found thanks to Brexit. I can import it dried, or otherwise I have to make a long weekend of it in France to try it!

            • mobyduck648@lemmy.world
              19 days

              Yeah it’s a bit of a stereotype but I feel privileged to live where I do on an essentially invasion-proof island with no major tectonic hazards, cheap but decent grocery prices by international standards, and I can get on a train, plane, or ferry and be in one of dozens of other countries in under a day. Brexit did screw up a lot (like importing obscure fresh food on a whim…) but it can’t actually unanchor us from Europe.

              There’s a lot of structural issues and we hardly live in a utopia, in fact there’s massive own goals on housing and energy which probably won’t be fixed until NIMBY homeowners are no longer an electoral majority, but we’re too pessimistic to realise what a good hand we have geographically speaking.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      20 days

      I think it might be more that the industrialization of agriculture made rare flavors far more commonplace.

      Even real vanilla isn’t all that expensive or hard to come by anymore. Virtually every grocery store has it in quantities that will suffice for anything but full on commercial needs.

      So it has become a default flavor, exactly because it is both cheap to acquire and popular to consume. Not unlike chocolate (which, I might argue, is more vanilla than even mediocre quality vanilla).

    • Thorry@feddit.org
      20 days

      Wasn’t that whole gros michel story made up after the fact? Those bananas are still available, just more expensive. People who’ve eaten them have reported them tasting a bit more like the chemical banana taste, but not really the same. And the taste is highly dependent on how ripe the banana is. I think the actual story was the chemical banana was close enough and cheap and easy to produce. People also liked it, even though it didn’t really taste like bananas. So it became the de facto banana taste. In small amounts the taste is a lot closer, but people prefer the higher amounts because of the more intense taste.

      It even says as much on the Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gros_Michel#%3A~%3Atext=The+Gros+Michel+has+a%2Cseeming+version+of+the+Cavendish

      A food history myth is that artificial banana flavor was specifically developed from the Gros Michel, but isoamyl acetate is a simple compound and was not based on any specific cultivar.

      • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
        20 days

        It’s all a little fuzzy but essentially the Gros Michel was THE cultivar of banana, but it became susceptible to a disease. It still exists, but can’t be farmed like it used to be.

        The chemical was developed and likened to the Gros Michel variety in mind for it being called ‘banana’ flavor since the Cavendish (i think?) hadn’t yet replaced the world market as the banana cultivar of choice.

      • Axolotl@feddit.it
        20 days

        And the taste is highly dependent on how ripe the banana

        Just like with every banana cultivar

    • AFK BRB Chocolate (CA version)@lemmy.ca
      20 days

      Edit: fun fact, the fake banana taste is actually based off of the “gris michel” banana.

      This is an urban legend.

      The real reason artificial banana flavoring tastes so jarring isn’t because food scientists modeled it on a lost fruit from a century ago. It comes down to a classic case of isolated organic chemistry vs. complex natural agriculture, a phenomenon known in statistical science as the “n=1” problem, and a single volatile molecule called isoamyl acetate.

    • Quibblekrust@thelemmy.clubEnglish
      19 days

      Fun fact: your “fun fact” is a myth. Artificial banana flavor is not “based off Gros Michael”. The flavoring is not some sort of recipe that was based off of anything. It’s a single chemical found in all bananas. It’s a coincidence that Gros Michael tastes more like fake banana flavoring than other bananas, but all bananas contain that same ester: isoamyl acetate. It’s just that Gros Michael has more of it.

      However, if you dig in to this tale a little it soon becomes clear that there is little or no verifiable source that artificial banana is based on Gros Michel. “It sounds very, very unlikely to me,” says synthetic organic chemist Derek Lowe.

      https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140829-the-secrets-of-fake-flavours

      So please stop repeating this myth.

      In addition, you’re completely wrong about artificial vanilla flavor. It is the exact ester found in real vanilla, and it is by far the most dominant flavor in real vanilla. It tastes exactly like vanilla minus a few extra subtle notes.

    • dethedrus@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      19 days

      Gros Michel still exists, but on an extremely small scale.

      Cavendish is also a monoculture so it may well happen again.

  • 4am@lemmy.zip
    20 days

    I’m convinced that “vanilla” meaning “plain/no flavor” is because the makers of vanilla ice cream cut down on the amount being used so much that people associated it with flavorlessness.

    An early shrinkflation.

    • boonhet@sopuli.xyz
      19 days

      It’s not flavorless by any means, it’s more that vanilla is a base flavor, to which other stuff is then added. It’s the default so you get too used to it

    • SlurpingPus@lemmy.world
      19 days

      Where I am, I can buy either vanilla or proper plain ice cream, so I should get both one day and compare.

  • flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz
    20 days

    It doesn’t help that “vanilla” flavored products usually use a tiny drop of artificial vanillin.

    Real vanilla has a much richer amazing taste. But even the artificial stuff would be ok if they just put more of it. That shit is cheap, pour it in dammit.

        • ZombieCyborgFromOuterSpace@piefed.caEnglish
          19 days
          • 2 cups 35% cream
          • 1 cup whole milk
          • 1 bean of madagascar vanilla
          • 5 eggs
          • 3/4 cups sugar

          In a small saucepan, mix the milk & cream. Cut the vanilla bean in half lengthwise. Scrape the interior to collect all the seeds and dump them in the cream mixture along with the vanilla bean husk. Heat it up on medium heat. (Don’t boil it!) Once it’s hot, turn off the heat and let the vanilla steep.

          In the meantime, seperate the egg yolks from the egg whites. In a large saucepan, mix the egg yolks with the sugar and manually whip them together until the mixture turns a very pale yellow.

          Once the cream mixture cooled a bit, using a ladle, very slowly pour the cream mixture over the yolk mixture while continually stirring with a wooden apoon and make sure you let it cool before adding more or your yolks are going to turn into an omelet and create lumps. Keep stirring!

          Once it’s all mixed, set it on the stove over a low heat (if your stove goes up to 10, set it to 2 or 2 and a half) and KEEP STIRRING ! Don’t ever stop stirring. Eventually it will thicken up. It should get thick enough that if you draw a line on the back of the wooden spoon with your finger, the cream shouldn’t drip over the line.

          Once it’s thickened enough, pour into a bowl and set that bowl in a tub of cold water. (I usually fill the sink half way with cold water and set it in there. ) Keep stirring. You want to cool it to stop the cooking process.

          Finally, cover the bowl with plastic wrap or whatever and leave it in the fridge overnight.

          The next day, pour it in the ice cream machine and let it do its thing.

          For a little extra, add 1-1.5 ouncse of bourbon while it’s doing its thing.

  • Axolotl@feddit.it
    20 days

    That’s because 90% of things with “vanilla flavour” just have vanillin in it and that’s it, while real vanilla has other stuff alongside vanillin in it which makes the flavour different, just try to eat stuff with fake vanilla and then eat stuff with real vanilla, you will notice a big difference

    • protist@retrofed.comEnglish
      20 days

      I’ve read it’s really hard to get them to flower and go to seed indoors. Godspeed!

      • MissJinx@lemmy.world
        20 days

        Yeah you have to polinate each flower every morning by hand. But you only start to get flowers after abtout 8/10 years so… we are in for the long run

        • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
          19 days

          and its also grown in specific, tropical environment. aka most of it comes from africa, madagascar, and south america. so you cant really grow it in a temperate country like the usa. its not like those other ornamental orchids that are sold, those easy to grow.(most orchids are endangered in the wild, because of theier fungal symbionts specificity).

  • captain_oni@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    19 days

    This pretty much sums up my feelings on vanilla.

    For the people that can’t see images, Here is video with a dramatic reading.

    • merc@sh.itjust.works
      19 days

      Blondies? Pound cakes? Cheesecakes? Honestly, none of those appeal to me. They all seem like such bland treats.

      Vanilla is a good flavour enhancer. I love it as an addition to something like a chocolate mousse or an egg nog. But, on its own it’s as exciting as white rice, or spaghetti without sauce.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
      19 days

      I have no experience of any of the things listed. The are all uniquely American products that only in American would ever consider consuming. Which I think is the point really.

  • jaycifer@lemmy.world
    20 days

    Vanilla is my favorite smell. Back in college when my buddy went to Mexico and brought back cup souvenirs for friends, he didn’t get one for me. Instead he gave me a big bottle of fancy vanilla. I kept that thing at my computer desk and every so often for the next couple years I’d pop it open and take a big rip of the smell just to feel a little more alive. It was so great.

    • inari@piefed.zipEnglish
      20 days

      It’s also considered the boring option because everone loves it

  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today
    19 days

    the problem with vanilla, is that we dont have its definitive natural, and vanilla orchid is pretty hard to cultivate too. it gets complicated when you are trying to find out the origin of vanllia in s america, and the original pollinator. i think people still do it by HAND.

    its because like most orchids, it prevents self-fertilization through its flower structure, and requires by hand, which is cumbersome and tedious. vanilla is pretty hard to cultivate.

    and normal people, horticulture are unable to do it effectively either.

  • iterable@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
    20 days

    As someone who gets issues with Chocolate. Vanilla has always been my go to. Finding good Vanilla ice cream is amazing. Having bad Vanilla ice cream though is so bad. Binging with Babish did a taste test of all Vanilla ice cream he could get his hands on. Benjerry had the best bang for your buck and is dam good but if you want the real good stuff Mcconnell makes you see what you have been missing in your life.

    • mirshafie@europe.pub
      20 days

      Yeah but bad chocolate is also trash, so this isn’t a question of which ingredient is better but a question of quality.

      The best ice cream I ever had was vanilla, and it was home made by a crazy person.

    • jol@discuss.tchncs.de
      20 days

      Cheap vanillin flavouring lacks all dimensions of vanilla, so it is indeed “plain”

  • Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    20 days

    Vanilla flavor is simple and straightforward. The funny thing about food is that the simpler the recipe is, the more important the quality of the ingredients has to be. Since more and more foods are enshittifying, vanilla is starting to taste very bland and boring. I remember the days when Breyer’s had actual vanilla beans in their ice cream and that tasted delicious. You wouldn’t say that about them now though.